Canada’s largest Muslim organisation is outraged over a bill introduced by the Quebec government that would ban headscarves for school support staff and students.
“In Quebec, we made the decision that state and the religion are separate,” said Education Minister Bernard Drainville, CBC News reported. “And today, we say the public schools are separate from religion.”
But the National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM), who are challenging in the Supreme Court the original bill that forbids religious symbols being worn by teachers, say the new bill is another infringement on their rights and unfairly targets hijab-wearing Muslims.
“This renewed attack on the fundamental rights of our community is just one of several recent actions taken by this historically unpopular government to bolster their poll numbers by attacking the rights of Muslim Canadians,” the NCCM said in a social media post.
By banning religious signs you do the opposite of separating religion from the state, since the state is forcing people to hide any sign that the person is from a religious group.
There is also the problem that there is thousands of religions that may have their own signs how can you known all the religion signs and ban them? Also beards can be considered a religious sign should we also ban it or require a certain beard length limit just like peoole used to measure how short a women skirt is?
I hope this don’t make more visible divisions between canadian. Right know most of the separation is shiwn online.
I heard arguments about it in other spaces that made a lot of sense to me. Like a judge who ought to be able to visibly set their religion aside while exercising their authority, rather than signaling possible conflicts of interest in the very office such would compromise. I think I’m even on board with that reasoning. By that same reasoning, maybe it’s appropriate to also restrict displays of religious affiliation by school staff.
But why students?
That’s blatant cultural suppression and I cannot conceive a remotely coherent justification for it. And why the focus specifically on people showing their faces? Can you imagine if we mandated a certain amount of cleavage? How the fuck is this anybody’s business?
This just has me re-evaluating the cultural protectionism/outgroup suppression I’d previously deemed adequately justified.
I have mixed feelings on this topic.
I think this is wrong. I get that the hijab is complicated ethically, as it’s expected of Muslim women. Wether or not it’s consensual is debatable, sure.
I’ve also spoken to Muslim women who claim to be wearing it voluntarily, because it makes them feel less objectified and more comfortable in their own skin. It’s also a connection to their cultural and religious background, which is important. As a non-Muslim, I don’t really think I’m qualified to argue. I don’t think it should be the provincial government’s decision either. At the end of the day, it’s a piece of cloth… What does it really hurt?
When I lived in Quebec, I saw plenty of Christian religious symbols. Will removing those be enforced as well?
apparently, yes. crosses, anyways:
The ban, meant to separate the state from religion, also outlaws Christian crosses, Jewish kippahs and Sikh turbans.
I saw that, but I’m very skeptical it will be enforced with the same frequency as hijabs. In my experience, Quebec is obsessed with promoting it’s own culture. Christianity is a big part of French Canadian culture, so I expect it will get a pass. It’s very much a “rules for thee, not for me” sort of place.
If I’m wrong and it’s enforced equally for everyone, that’s better. I still don’t think the government has any business making laws around peaceful religious expression, however.
Maybe many still consider themselves Christians if you ask them for a title as they still believe in a god but not really the religion. That’s my 40 years of experience anyway. For a couple decades I don’t know of a single person who goes to church or prey. It’s definitely not a big part of the culture.
When the CAQ first proposed to ban religious symbols in government years ago, they first said the cross would stay as it is “historical”. Everyone got upset at how hypocritical this was and they had to fold. Quebecois didn’t like that at all.
All that said, I think they are going too far again with their last idea. Anyway they are not so popular right now and there is a controversy about the SAAQLIC project, they are just trying to change the narrative.
The main culture in Quebec since the 1960 is to ridicule Christianity and other religions.
Christianity is still by far the predominant religion in Quebec. There are more Christians in Quebec than people who identify as non-religious.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=9810035301
… and Christianity is the most criticized : consider only swear words are all ridiculed christian terms 🤣 !
I think this is more indicative of the historical influence of Christianity over French Canadian affairs than it is proof of modern Quebec’s perception of world religions…
In my experience, Quebec is obsessed with promoting it’s own culture.
Yes indeed Quebec is really protective of its culture which include bashing Christian religion and, by extension, other religions … but not as strongly 🤣.
Christianity is a big part of French Canadian culture,
Big ? 🤣 No, small and smaller everyday. Churches go bankrupt and get converted to whatever else …
The social implications of veiling are an interesting and complex topic. Unfortunately, public discourse tends to be pretty bad at handling complex topics. But there are occasional moments of lucidity. To wit:
Sometime around 2015 or so we had a big political debate in Germany. Some politicians were floating the idea of a “burqa ban” (= a flat ban on all forms of Islamic face veiling). For a while it was seriously debated but it ultimately failed as most Germans considered it to violate freedom of religion.
The media were actually helpful – at least the publicly funded ones were. One particularly interesting report I saw was when a female reporter put on full veils (and correctly identified what she was wearing as a niqab, not a burqa) and went out in public. First with a hidden camera to see how she was treated, then with a camera team to get vox pops.
Opinions were actually fairly divided even among Muslims. One male Muslim argued that face veils always are inherently oppressive and have no place in society. A young woman (who was wearing nothing indicating her religion) expressed admiration for those who fully veil and hoped that one day she’d be able to as well. An old woman wearing a headscarf who was carrying groceries said that she did wear the niqab “but not right now; I have things to do”.
That diversity of views has stuck with me, especially that last statement. I never expected someone who observes such full veiling to be so pragmatic about it. (Yes, that does go against the reasons for wearing them in the first place but everybody tailors their religion to themself.) If wearing any kind of veils can be something you can just decide not to do, then it becomes an expression of agency, not one of lack thereof. I respect that.
Of course it’s not respectable when someone is forced to wear a headscarf/a niqab/whatever. But a ban isn’t going to fix that; people who oppress their wives aren’t going to stop doing so. If they feel that nobody outside the house is allowed to see their wife’s face then the wife will simply no longer be allowed to leave the house.
Ultimately, in my opinion, people should be allowed to wear any religious garment they want, provided it’s their own desire to do so and there’s no overriding reason to disallow it. (E.g., no matter how religious you are, you do not wear a kaftan or a cross necklace or anything else that dangles while operating industrial machinery.) Anything else is useless at best.
Legault keeps “solving” problems that don’t exist to try to appear more nationalistic than the PQ.
They are just pushing moral panic against Muslims to appear like they are doing something to protect QC culture. At the same the same time they have defunded french language classes. And they keep not saying anything about how the feds are consistently discriminating against African francophone potential immigrants.
There is no culture war with Muslims in actual Quebec society beyond the shit the CAQ is stirring to stay in the news. There are no armies of niqab wearing fanatics trying to take over our cities. But it costs the government nothing to push this crap. This is all shadowboxing for appearances.
I don’t really agree with banning someone’s personal religious symbol, but if they’re a government employee, like a teacher, I see the argument. That being said, why ban the students from wearing religious symbols?
Meanwhile, in the USA, there are states trying to mandate Christian symbols in schools.
What do you think about state mandated mini skirts for teachers? Since you are a big fan of telling people what they are allowed to wear.
So again, I don’t agree with it. What I meant was that there is an argument to keeping teachers from displaying religious imagery, since one could mistakenly interpret that as the state promoting a particular religion. I think that argument is weak, but at least there’s flimsy logic behind it. There’s no logic behind keeping students from displaying religious imagery.
Do you understand what I mean?
I have had plenty of teachers wearing crosses and other religious symbols and have never been bothered by it.
If anything it helps students identify there are other cultures in a multicultural society.
There is only one clear reason for these laws and it inspired by French colonialism.
Good. Ban displays of crucifixes and necklaces with crosses as well.
Religious symbols have no place in tax payer funded institutions.
Are the taxpayers paying for the hijabs?
“In Quebec, we made the decision that state and the religion are separate,” said Education Minister Bernard Drainville
What is religion anyway? Worshiping men (politicians) is okay, but worshiping Allah is not?
As someone else pointed out, even from a liberal pov, this is wrong as it is anti-freedom and anti-personal autonomy. Women should have the right to choose what to wear according such a philosophy. Using the unconvincing loophole of “but they were forced to wear hijab” to turn this into something pro-freedom/pro-autonomy hardly changes that fact.
It’s a dangerous path to take, as these politicians will not only step on Muslims’ rights, but also set a precedent that the government (a few elites) can dictate when people are wearing too much. It also undermines the entire notion of protecting women’s rights.
Medical Assistance In Dying (MAID) should have been a red flag that Canada’s rulers are mildly deranged along with being morally bankrupt.
Suppose Canada goes 100% banning such idiocy, now, where do you want to live ?
In your head, rent-free.
Thanks for the humor and light tone, have a nice day, take care 😋
Wrapping women up is the tool of oppression, so good for Canada.
Women can make that decision for themselves, individually, based on what they are comfortable with.
These can’t. Ask their owner, i mean dad.
You are right all women should be forced to go to school naked.
ah yes, teaching’s famous “second paycheck”
The two things that have sown division in this world since forever, rich and poor, and religions
I’d get rid of all religions if I could, but if not that, this is a good step. Schools are not about indoctrinated ideas, it’s about learning science and facts. Sure, teach about religions (and don’t skip the parts where religion absolutely fucked this world over sideways) but sldont condone the practice of it on school grounds.
If you want to live in the stone Age then go back to a country where that is allowed. If you want to live in a civilized country, then don’t expect your religion to be catered to at every corner.
Can I wear a hijab for non-religious purposes?? You know, like EVERYONE WHO WEARS A HIJAB??
Nobody is stopping them to wear whatever they want in school … they just have to choose another country if they are so brainwashed.
Nobody is stopping people protest against Israel in the USA. They just have to choose another country or stop protesting? This is how stupid your argument is
Yes, sometimes i will sound stupid. But about the genocide committed by Israel : it is much more important than any idiotic hijab or whatever pieces of clothes.
Protecting harmless freedom of expression is a lot less important than a genocide but still important.
Yes some things are much more important than others, still …
Do you know this whole debate about stupid religious signs in Quebec came once again because there has been disregard of basic rights (life threatening) in some schools for non-religious children ?
