There is also discord guilds for sharing cheats, which is very damaging to the massive fps games industry

Using systems built into the game is damaging to the industry?

Or do you mean cracks/hacks? Because if it’s a cheat, that’s something the devs explicitly added.

And looking at Nintendo vs the R4, these companies do take down sites discussing/sharing hacks and cracks. Just not as publicly as you might expect it to happen because why would they, it’s just a lawyer sending a very formal letter asking for them to either take it down, or their company will be taken down in court.

Didn’t they also click ads when you clicked a link, invisibly in the background?

DDG is so bad in results though it makes not using a search engine seem like a solid alternative. I remember that research from a few months ago where they compared Google, Bing and DDG to do statistical analysis of if and how much Google’s search results have been getting worse in recent years.

Result:

• Google did get worse.
• However, Bing and DDG got worser, faster.

The real conclusion was that SEO spam has found ways to optimize that is no longer easy to exclude for search providers. Hence all search is getting shit pretty quickly.

If they’re afraid of that, they joined the Fedi with a fundamental misunderstanding of how its supposed to work.

Yeah I was about to say, sure this isn’t ActivityPub, but the specific implementation of the federation should be an impolementation detail the user should never care about. You joined a federated system. Your content gets federated. Period. Whether said federation happens through ActivityPub, AT, some bridge system or the Binford Content Disperser 5000XL+, that’s really not the point of any discussions so long as the content does get federated.

Tbh X is not the real enemy here imo.

Eh, X and Musk are always the enemy. I get what you’re saying, but ultimately it’s important to keep in mind that the underlying impetus is still Musk being a far-right bigot that has bought X to explicitly make it a haven for fascists, bigots and haters.

If we’re allowed to - and happily do - copy over content from for-profit websites with bots, it feels a bit weird to then get angry about that happening in reverse, no?

Plus, oh no, interoperability. We get to just interact with people instead of everyone sitting in their respective walled gardens.

The situation is not truly comparable, tbh.

Artists very much retain legal rights to the art they create. Hence the current lawsuits against various AI companies. Meanwhile it depends on jurisdiction whether a comment/thought you write on a public-facing website can be considered your legal production for a civil lawsuit. It’d be trivial if it were a closed site with a very selective admission process with some easily evaluated barrier (say, only people who study at university XYZ are allowing on the otherwise private forum of that university), but public-facing it’s more ambiguous.

You can still try to sue someone who taking that content, but it’s not as clearcut that someone violates your rights as with artists and their art. Meaning that there’s less basis for someone wanting this to always have to be explicitly opt-in and get explicit permission. At least right now. This might very well all change as a result of AI lawsuits.

Well, 1 effective server. I would sure hope it actually runs on more than 1 for redundancy/latency reasons.

Yeah I was about to say, I could see an argument for Mastodon having lost (it’s momentum, which is the only thing it truly has going for it), but Bluesky? ~every podcaster I follow now advertises they’re on bluesky instead of twitter, and most youtubers link to their bluesky, too. At least in the US it seems to have gotten decently popular tbh.

OTOH, we have the BBC and Flipboard being all-in on Mastodon, granted. Which is going to be fun when people get around to defederating them considering how it went for Threads.

why don’t they switch to ActivityPub and problem solved immediately get defederated

FTFY. That’s what would actually happen, and you and me both know it. 😛

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It’s just embarrassing. This is how we wish to present ourselves as an alternative to corporate social media?

Yeah it’s all “We hate walled gardens” and then a minute later “DO NOT TOUCH MY GARDEN WALLS!!!1!!”.

And it’s always the same utopian idea that you can somehow both be relevant and big enough to have “enough” activity to be a fun space where to spend free time for discussion and avoid any and all corporate interest in the technology. Instead of trying to get ahead of it and figuring out how to handle of this so that when it inevitably happens you got a clue what to do about it. As if defederating from Threads would even stop Threads from both copying content to them and - if they wanted to - copying their content here. Ridiculous, if they wanted to, they could and they would. That they don’t even want to is the far more interesting bit, really.

I think the people mad about these massive networks joining the Fediverse want to shield their little social networks from the big bad internet. They don’t want the Fediverse or any part of it to succeed and become mainstream, because that brings in the toxic waste of opinions and trolls that the wider social media is known for, and their tiny servers don’t have the moderation capacity to deal with that.

And I mean, I don’t necessarily disagree - but I find it wild that the very same group would then not also want their social network to be inaccessible from the outside, so that it cannot simply be scraped like this bridge does.

But it’s also a bit weird insofar that if AP ever gets big, that’s a problem we’ll have to do deal with sooner rather than later anyways. Or at least have a plan how to handle it that goes beyond DEFEDERATE EVERYTHING™️. We need to accept that either there’s a certain baseline obscurity always baked in that also means at any point it could be that the world at large swings to using a different federation protocol and then we’re the weird pariah on a weird non-standard protocol. Or it gets mainstream acceptance and then Threads will be just one problem in an ocean of corporate federation.

Personally, I just go 🤷 in regards to the actual data-federation, and rather focus on moderation/administration tooling and automation. It’s a problem that eventually needs solving anyways, so might as well get in front of it and have a solution for when or if large corporate instances and their masses of users end up dumping data into AP.

Fair enough.

I don’t even truly know where I stand if I had to personally decide it. I guess i’m one of those filthy Neutrals, I have no strong opinion either way. 😑

And neither via federation like in AP. It’s a bit of a hole that should the technology get truly big will eventually come to a head.

We already had lawsuits in Germany related to linking to copyright infringing content, it’s not a big stretch that if you scrape or federate a link that could infringe, you are in turn infringing.

Assuming you hold rights to your content in the legal system you’d be claiming the damages in, you are of course free to file a lawsuit.

And also by the bots we use to copy reddit content here, I presume? 😛

Again, false equivalence, and I don’t think you understood what @Crackhappy meant when they said it.

You are trying to equate the concept of whether you can do something with whether a civil lawsuit would rule that you are liable for damages for it.

Of course you can copy something someone uploaded to the internet. They made it publicly available, it’s trivial to copy. Disney or so might take you to court for it, and here we get to the crux of the matter: Assuming you were to post all your posts here under an “all rights reserved” license and the instance you’re doing that on confirm you in writing that they’ll comply with orders for data in case you need it for a lawsuit, you’d absolutely be able to go after someone creating a bridge copying your data to Threads in a civil lawsuit.

Are you going to do that over any comment you post here? Probably not, plus, honestly, good luck showing that you have been materially damaged by the copy.

But again, false equivalence. You can trivially copy anything on the web. Whether you are liable for it is a wholly different thing nobody was talking about.

So/so.

You only have the option if it’s your instance that you’re having defederated. You cannot prevent anyone from:

• Spinning up a new instance then federating with you, then bridging the content from there to the defederated instance.
• Simply using a web-scraper and a bot to post your stuff on another instance.

The second part is basically what is happening here.

Importantly, I feel people misunderstand on a fundamental level what it means to post things openly on the internet. Your only way to prevent this is simply to not post to a site that people can access freely and without a process through which you are vetting them for whether you trust them. As in: Just like IRL when you decide whether to tell things to friends or acquaintences or well, not.

But, on the web, you not only cannot prevent someone taking your public data and copying it over to wherever they so desire, you don’t even know since they could be posting it in a place that you in turn have no access to so you cannot see it there.

Your posts are awfully public, given that goal. I mean, anybody can freely access them and use programs to copy them for any use they desire.