I find it strange that Canada could complete the Canada Pacific Railway in 1881 with a population of 4 million and the Trans Canada Highway in 1962 with a population of 18 million but such a national project in 2024 with a population of 40 million is impossible. More like, ever since the funding strategy for infrastructure moved over to the P3 model primarily, infrastructure investments can only happen if a private organization can profit from them in the relatively short term. And this makes the investment costs of such mega projects too high for private interests to want to take on. But no one points at the CPR or the Trans Canada Highway and frets about the costs now. The value of the investments are apparent. They built the country we live in. A trans national hsr network would do the same.
I agree that this would be okay, but I think a lot of the value in HSR for Canada would be it’s ability to bring the country closer together for more people. Imagine being able to go from Vancouver to Halifax for like 80$ or whatever at speeds comparable to flying. This would open up intra-national travel to a much greater portion of the population and over time help build connection in a country that can be prone to regionalism.
To be honest, it doesn’t have to be HSR at that point. Just reliable normal rail would do that, something we’re still lacking for most of the country. Imagine being able to get to any province in a day under $30 (and even cheaper group deals) with zero chances of any delays.
Vacations across Canada, or even just visiting family in another province for a weekend would be easy and regular. Not to mention how much it would bring the nation together. As things stand, the provinces are more separated from each other than the states in the US. We’re closer to the EU than the US in terms of unity. Arguably even worse than the EU. Promoting cross provincial movement for even little things would seriously bring us together, not to mention all the economic benefits.
It’s amazing what you can accomplish by exploiting Chinese immigrants to do the most dangerous work for $1/day (half of what white Canadians were paid for less dangerous work) (source).
So building a high performance rail network in the 21st century will cost a lot more, but it will still be worth it.
That of course is a sad fact of our history. However, the productivity of the average worker is also much greater than it was back then. We aren’t exactly laying down large infrastructure projects with gangs of guys using hand tools anymore, or at least not nearly to the same degree. So I think we can keep production costs down (relative to inflationary differences between then and now) minus the racial oppression and awful working conditions.
It’s not a question of productivity now, it’s a question of organization. Our governing institutions are too full of rent seekers and mafias now to do the kinds of things it did post WW2. Nobody can do anything big anymore because the system fights them. We can’t even stop daylight savings time, which basically nobody wants to keep doing
Canada today is almost certainly less corrupt and rent seeking than the literal Gilded Age, when the country was founded! In fact, the Pacific Scandal was our first major political scandal, involving political bribery by railroad investors and leading to the resignation of John A Macdonald.
I really have to push back against this pessimism about government. It only serves conservative pro-privatization interests to push that narrative. The problem is political will. Voters easily approve major new highways in ON. We would get rail if voters demanded it. So let’s start a movement!
Environmental assessments, negotiations with First Nations, land acquisition/expropriations, not to mention that every little town along any proposed route would be pushing for a stop. Throw in assorted loons and NIMBYS and their legal efforts, and it’s a wonder anything ever gets built. The fact that there are more people makes it much more difficult, not easier.
The initial transcontinental railways were very much a partnership between business and government. And a hugely corrupt one at that.
The Trans Mountain pipeline just going from Alberta to BC port is running at $30B currently. Much of that is due to opposition from locals and their legal efforts and protests. It’s a hugely easier construction/engineering effort to put in a pipeline than an HSR line. Grades aren’t important, a ditch is dug and the line is plopped in then covered. They’re deep enough and flexible enough that most heaving won’t affect it. Throw in some booster stations and Bob’s-your-uncle.
HSR tracks have to be near perfect to ensure stability and there are tight limits on allowable grades/radius etc. Just the route surveys would be a huge challenge.
I find it strange that Canada could complete the Canada Pacific Railway in 1881 with a population of 4 million and the Trans Canada Highway in 1962 with a population of 18 million but such a national project in 2024 with a population of 40 million is impossible. More like, ever since the funding strategy for infrastructure moved over to the P3 model primarily, infrastructure investments can only happen if a private organization can profit from them in the relatively short term. And this makes the investment costs of such mega projects too high for private interests to want to take on. But no one points at the CPR or the Trans Canada Highway and frets about the costs now. The value of the investments are apparent. They built the country we live in. A trans national hsr network would do the same.
Doesnt even need to be a national network. Just start with the quebec-windsor corridor, where half the country lives.
Hell, just start with montreal to toronto which is like 30% of the country’s population
I agree that this would be okay, but I think a lot of the value in HSR for Canada would be it’s ability to bring the country closer together for more people. Imagine being able to go from Vancouver to Halifax for like 80$ or whatever at speeds comparable to flying. This would open up intra-national travel to a much greater portion of the population and over time help build connection in a country that can be prone to regionalism.
To be honest, it doesn’t have to be HSR at that point. Just reliable normal rail would do that, something we’re still lacking for most of the country. Imagine being able to get to any province in a day under $30 (and even cheaper group deals) with zero chances of any delays.
Vacations across Canada, or even just visiting family in another province for a weekend would be easy and regular. Not to mention how much it would bring the nation together. As things stand, the provinces are more separated from each other than the states in the US. We’re closer to the EU than the US in terms of unity. Arguably even worse than the EU. Promoting cross provincial movement for even little things would seriously bring us together, not to mention all the economic benefits.
We want rail to move people away from population centres
That’s not going to happen.
Chicken and egg problem.
It’s amazing what you can accomplish by exploiting Chinese immigrants to do the most dangerous work for $1/day (half of what white Canadians were paid for less dangerous work) (source).
So building a high performance rail network in the 21st century will cost a lot more, but it will still be worth it.
That of course is a sad fact of our history. However, the productivity of the average worker is also much greater than it was back then. We aren’t exactly laying down large infrastructure projects with gangs of guys using hand tools anymore, or at least not nearly to the same degree. So I think we can keep production costs down (relative to inflationary differences between then and now) minus the racial oppression and awful working conditions.
It’s not a question of productivity now, it’s a question of organization. Our governing institutions are too full of rent seekers and mafias now to do the kinds of things it did post WW2. Nobody can do anything big anymore because the system fights them. We can’t even stop daylight savings time, which basically nobody wants to keep doing
Canada today is almost certainly less corrupt and rent seeking than the literal Gilded Age, when the country was founded! In fact, the Pacific Scandal was our first major political scandal, involving political bribery by railroad investors and leading to the resignation of John A Macdonald.
I really have to push back against this pessimism about government. It only serves conservative pro-privatization interests to push that narrative. The problem is political will. Voters easily approve major new highways in ON. We would get rail if voters demanded it. So let’s start a movement!
Environmental assessments, negotiations with First Nations, land acquisition/expropriations, not to mention that every little town along any proposed route would be pushing for a stop. Throw in assorted loons and NIMBYS and their legal efforts, and it’s a wonder anything ever gets built. The fact that there are more people makes it much more difficult, not easier.
The initial transcontinental railways were very much a partnership between business and government. And a hugely corrupt one at that.
The Trans Mountain pipeline just going from Alberta to BC port is running at $30B currently. Much of that is due to opposition from locals and their legal efforts and protests. It’s a hugely easier construction/engineering effort to put in a pipeline than an HSR line. Grades aren’t important, a ditch is dug and the line is plopped in then covered. They’re deep enough and flexible enough that most heaving won’t affect it. Throw in some booster stations and Bob’s-your-uncle.
HSR tracks have to be near perfect to ensure stability and there are tight limits on allowable grades/radius etc. Just the route surveys would be a huge challenge.