I used to think that there would be 1, main ‘Fediverse’ with all of the ‘big instances’ connected to each other. The recent Threads debacle has shown me otherwise.
The point of the Fediverse is that there is no one single entity, or group of entities, dominating it all.
Right now it feels like whatever the big instances do, we kind of have to go along with to be a part of anything. As the Fediverse grows, there will be more options to suit different types of users.
I think it’s fine if big instances federate with Threads and it’s fine if they don’t. People can just join instances that align with what they want. It’s not like defederating means being cut out of the Fediverse, that’s not possible.
Great design. I’m eager to see how it plays out.
Edit: Since so many people are misinformed: No, blocking Threads on an individual basis is not a solution. This only blocks posts from Threads showing up in your feed. It does not block Threads users’ comments from spreading hate and extremism throughout federated instances, and lemmy users will still be subject to potential harassment from Threads users. (See the harassment of the LGBTQ+ community on Threads for examples…)
Here’s a comment of mine that states my argument against federating with Threads.
Also, I was not trying to debate the issue here. I was looking for recommendations for alternative instances… I’d appreciate anyone actually responding to my comment.
Original comment: Anybody have recommendations on a decent instance that won’t be federating with Threads? Maybe one that allows community creation but isn’t full of tankies?
I’m jumping ship from .world if they go through with federating with Threads. Such a shame to see the effort put into building this great instance come undone.
This place decided to disregard what the majority of their users want and turn the neighborhood to shit way faster than reddit. I thought we’d at least have a couple years before instance admins started selling out to such a shitty company that’s going to make the fediverse a less safe place for their users.
Meta will also do anything they can to EEE and I’m not convinced the fediverse is as invulnerable to such exploitation as some users seem to be.
Just because Lemmy.world doesn’t agree with about defederating with meta doesn’t make them sell outs. Like you said, you are jumping ship; just like the fediverse intended.
For better or worse, Lemmy.world is intended to be a catch all instance for normies so it makes sense why they would not defederate from meta.
I disagree that they aren’t selling out.
I consider it to be as such when this move isn’t supported by most of their userbase, they misframe that blocking Threads is a viable solution for the rampant issues with hate/extremism, and the decision puts their users at risk (both in the form of extremism/harassment and exploitation by Meta).
It’s an inch towards becoming mainstream, but the costs outweigh the benefits IMO. I believe it’s hypocritical to defederate from exploding heads and then turn around and federate with Threads.
I think misleading users into believing they can block Threads (only the posts), making a decision against the majority of their community’s wishes, and instead subjecting them to potential harassment, misinformation and exploitation is selling out.
You’ve mentioned that the majority of Lemmy.world users support defederating from threads. Do you have a source?
As someone in the “wait and see” group I’m curious how many people really are in each group.
If the majority of users on Lemmy.world does not want to be federated with meta then Lemmy.world will lose those users and then no longer be the power they currently are with influence over the fediverse.
Also I believe it’s disingenuous to equate explodingheads, which was defederated for being extremely toxic due to its lack of moderation and meta which presumably has more resources to devote to moderation than any fedi instance (of course they are still terrible at it)
I’m for defederating with meta when the time comes because I don’t think that their influence is healthy for the fediverse and don’t think that most admins could handle the burdens that would come with federating with them. Lemmy.world (and mastodon.social and a few others) is a big enough instance that they could handle those challenges. I’ve said before that if meta only sticks to the open source AP spec then the risks are much less and so that should be the criteria for federation
Okay, right here, stop for a second and think. Picture in your head what happens on Meta platforms daily. Think about the rampant hate, harassment (especially of LGBTQIA people) and open radicalization/right wing propaganda/science denial that goes on completely unchecked on all platforms Meta, and has for years – despite Zuck’s yearly hangdog visits to Congress and the EU denying all problems while simultaneously promising to do better.
And as an extra mental boot, think of all the people – especially the young ones – who get openly and unrestrainedly bullied on Meta platforms, Lord of the Flies style, to the literal point of attempted or completed suicide. And consider how all Meta does, each and every time it happens, is mouth platitudes about thoughts, prayers, and their overwhelming commitment to safe platforms plus zero tolerance for bullying, as though that shit isn’t front and center on their platforms, ALWAYS.
Okay, carry on:
It’s not a matter of being terrible, and I’m not saying you’re wrong, but terrible implies that they try and fail.
I posit that they do not try: this is their actual profit structure.
It’s a matter of willfully avoiding even basic moderation duties because higher emotional load equals more engagement, more engagement means more content generation, more content generation means more user data and targeted ad revenue.
Apples and oranges, swings and roundabouts. Whatever you think of federating with Threads, do it or don’t do it, there really is NO possible comparison between Meta platforms and the Fediverse, nor how they are run and moderated (or not), nor the goals that motivate the administrators of both.
woohoo! we got moderated content!!! cant wait for all the “organic” ads that pop up in my feed from users spouting the benefits of Tide^TM brand soap!!!
OK.
Largest Lemmy instances blocking Instagram Threads are (according to fedipact.veganism.social) lemmy.ml, lemm.ee, lemmy.ca, Hexbear, feddit.de, Beehaw, Lemmygrad, lemmy.dbzer0.com, lemmy.blahaj.zone, discuss.tchncs.de, sopuli.xyz, aussie.zone, feddit.nl, lemmy.zip, midwest.social, feddit.uk, mander.xyz, …
Can’t you block threads yourself once .world updates to 0.19.0?
That’s such a misinformative false ‘solution’ people keep peddling…
No, blocking Threads on the individual user level does not stop comments made by Threads users from showing up on federated instances, even for users who block Threads.
That means users who block Threads will still see hate/extremism and are still subject to potential harassment by toxic Threads users.
I think there are many reasons to block threads but is toxic users one of them?
There are lots of toxic users on Lemmy too. Should we be blocking lemmy.world or lemmy.ml because they have a few toxic users too?
It’s false to consider the userbase on lemmy.world and Threads to be analogous. I have documented the very real problems with Threads in this comment here.
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I wouldn’t be so sure about that. I’ve seen people interacting from Mastodon here already.
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What are boosts?
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There are lots of hypotheticals here.
I expect the lemmy.world admins to block servers that are frequent sources of hate and extremism. I don’t expect them to speculatively block servers because some people guess they might be. I’m pretty skeptical that a majority of users want preemptive blocking. I don’t, and the votes and comments I see in most conversations on the subject suggest that’s a position held by a very loud minority.
I’m not sure Threads users will be all that interested in interacting with Lemmy. It’s an awkward UX to participate in Lemmy conversations from Mastodon, and I believe Threads has essentially the same format. Threads is likely to have a bigger impact on Mastodon servers, and I don’t think any of us can reliably predict what that impact will be yet.
I disagree on user support. Look at the posts heavily discussing the matter, and also pay attention to the vote counts.
Also, it’s not a hypothetical when there is already a systemic issue and the company has a notorious history. Look at my comment here for my fleshed out argument on this subject with citations.
I wasn’t intending on debating the issue here; I was only looking for recommendations on alternative instances.
Would you create a community, and if so, what kind?
I created !vans@lemmy.world and have been planning on trying to revive my efforts to grow the community, but I’m sure hell not doing that if Threads is being incorporated. I’m instead going to strip the community of all of the content I posted.
I also want to create a community for my city, but I’m never going to do that on an instance that allows Threads/Meta incorporation. Also have wanted to recreate r/OldSkaters from reddit.
If I wanted to deal with Meta, I’d make an account on one of their privacy/rights-infringing platforms.
As established already, blocking Threads does not block user comments from showing up. Even if it did, I still would not host a community on an instance federated with Threads unless there was a way for the communities themselves to fully block Threads interaction.
But the only way to fully block Threads is by defederating from it.
In a Mastodon level this is not true. Blocking Threads.net prevents you from sharing your content with them and for their content to show up. Pixelfed has also enabled user level Authorised fetch which will prevent Threads.net from attempting to fetch that users content
That’s good to know. Thanks.
I don’t get, even if you are part of .world and they are federated with threads.
Can’t you just personally block all threads?
You personally can defederate without it affecting anyone else.
No, that’s a half-measure at best… It only blocks Threads posts from showing up in your feed. It does not block Threads users comments from showing up on federated instances, even if the individual user personally blocks them.
I am legitimately fearful for LGBTQ+ users, as their community members have already been harrased on Threads by the far-right.
Keep living in your made up fear.
Keep living in denial of what has already been happening on Threads haha.
I mean… I’m not the OP but I don’t think people against meta/threads fear their idiot userbase. We just don’t want to deal with them. At all. Anywhere.
Or we’d have joined threads.
Thank you, exactly so.
Nothing ever stopped you from creating you own instance. With blackjack and beers.
Except for time, money, and technical knowledge…
Also *blackjack and hookers!
So, you have absolutely nothing to offer but somehow you think we should be giving any weight to your opinion?
Nice strawman attempt! There’s no reason for me to even argue with you when your argument is a fallacy and automatically invalid.
Using your ridiculous logic, you must think the vast majority of lemmy users don’t hold any value or merit? Because the vast majority of us are not hosting our own instances.
Being an active and constructive user, creating and moderating communities, and fighting misinformation are positive qualities for online communities.
Edit: I’ve also been donating to Ruud since my first week on this platform, so that’s yet another reason your argument is totally incorrect. But I’ll definitely be stopping my donations if Threads ends up being federated with.
If the “vast majority of lemmy users” start demand things from their admins while excusing themselves from contributing in any meaningful way, yes, I’d disregard their opinions as well.
“Skin in the Game” is important. If you are not willing to risk anything for what you believe in, then how do you expect anyone else to take you seriously?
Boy, you really ought to consider taking a critical thinking class at your local community college or something…
You’re still trying to build a strawman argument. When your foundation is compromised, you don’t keep building on it…
It’s clear you’re going to use disingenuous argumentative tactics and fallacies. If your next comment is just as juvenile, I’m not going to bother responding. Again, these arguments are invalid upon arrival, being logical fallacies and all…
For someone with so much time to go to classes at community colleges, surely you can spare some minutes to run your own instance, no?
Here you go. Go create your own instance and show us how it is done.
I’m not going to a community college hahaha. I’m working on my Master’s in counseling.
Just thought that a critical thinking course may help you with your 4th grade level logic/arguments.